Hey does Pepperidge farms remember all the fucking morons on Lemmy urging not to vote for Harris because she was allegedly complicit in genocide? I sure as shit do.
Know what’s gonna be objectively worse, 100% regardless of the veracity those allegations? The reality that they helped forge instead.
Honestly not sure why it hasn’t been suggested that the ‘no vote’ bullshit was a tactic to get Repubs the win. Sure as hell worked and didn’t do anything to solve the issue, as we can blatantly see now.
The point was to pressure the Dems into giving up on genocide. You wanna talk about “pepperidge farm remembers”, I got one for ya
Remember when the Dems thought they could win while actively telling people who were anti genocide to go fuck themselves?
Hey, what’s weirder? Not voting for someone committing genocide, or being unwilling to stop committing a genocide even if it costs you the election?
How does it feel that the only thing that Harris had to do was say “I will stop weapons to Israel” and she would of won?
You can’t keep blaming the voters when the strategy was at fault. They knew they would lose votes. They thought they could court the centrists and liberal Republicans to make up for it. They were so fucking wrong. And somehow it’s not their own fault for having the worst campaign strategy known to man.
Like, Christ. Y’all ain’t ever gonna stop trying to blame leftists. You’ll be up against the wall with leftists fighting for your life and you’ll still be like “can’t believe you didn’t vote Harris”. I can’t believe Harris threw away the election over the continued genocide of palastinians. That’s fucking crazy. Is that not crazy to you? You don’t find it fucking insane that the Dems would rather a fascist state than stop actively committing a genocide? Cause that’s the fucking Gambit they ran and look where we are.
Look. I’m pissed. Your pissed. But we are just people with no power. Same with all those voters you wanna complain about. All we have is the ability to yell and vote. And while I voted for Harris out of fucking fear, I cannot blame the people who yelled “I will not vote for you if you keep committing genocide” and were fucking CALLED ON THAT SHIT. What kind of monster gambles with their own base over a fucking genocide?
As a fellow reluctant Harris voter, what upsets me the most is that the numbers people have run shows that no, actually, genocide was not the deciding factor in this election, which is kind of an indictment of America itself, but regardless, I’m sick of leftists being blamed when all the ones I know STILL voted Harris and the data shows that it wasn’t leftist that didn’t turn out, it was centrists. Harris didn’t have a voter base. Sure, some dems turned out, but she didn’t actually inspire people to vote, and that’s basically the only way dems win.
I don’t think history looks back negatively on any “I won’t support [a little] genocide” crowd, if there isn’t maybe this will be the first.
Is there a particular “this group of common folk opposed Hitler wrongly, everything’s their fault” narrative that is common? I meant this as a rant, but I’m too ignorant and perhaps there is. Obviously, Nazis and Nazi supporters are criticised. There’s those in power that handed it off to Hitler that take some flak. But those without power and also didn’t support Hitler what criticisms do they come under
Learning the lessons of history and who future generations are going to blame for the here and now. Is it going to be leftists that didn’t vote Nazi?
It’s also obvious that Trump and BB we’re coordinating during the election to ensure Biden couldn’t get a ceasefire deal in place in order to harm him politically. But as soon as Trump takes the office they just agree to a ceasefire no problem (as if that hadn’t been the plan all along) aaaaaaand then Trump goes off about finishing the job and annexing the whole west bank for the US. What a fucking surprise.
The mental gymnastics will only intensify as these fucking crypto-nazis get to distance themselves from their beliefs and actions of just a few months ago.
And considering the US blocked every ceasefire under her and Biden, and people pointed out even a year ago that the US and Israel want an alternative to the Suez canal, and people pointed out that Israel was moving Palestinians out with the US’s help in order to do this, all that happened. Pretty sure it was going exactly the same way. If you haven’t noticed, democrats aren’t exactly sitting up and saying this is ethnic cleansing or genocide even now. Or trying to fight it.
I still can’t get over how they were essentially presented with a simplified version of the trolley problem and chose to not pull the lever.
By their own narrative that “the democrats are complicit in a genocide in Gaza”, they were aware that Palestinians were metaphorically tied to both tracks, yet decided to not pull the lever when America itself and every marginalized person living within was also on the track the trolley barreled towards.
I suspected that many of the accounts were Russian plants or Trump supporters trying to divide the Democrat vote. Most of the time when I checked account age they were made either that day or the day before.
I know that Lemmy is new and all but still was sus.
I haven’t gone back to accounts to see if they are still active. I suspect that they aren’t.
Calling it simplified does a disservice of the real world impacts of the “trolley” - especially since unlike a thought experiment - this trolley problem is physically constructed by people to achieve imperialistic goals - so expending energy blaming random lemmings for this - instead of figuring out who built, maintains and presents the trolley as the only option and how to dismantle it seems useless.
I believe we should avoid infighting and actually organize to do something so we don’t have to choose if we pull the lever or not every 4 years (if there even is another election…)
Not having a choice and being fine with with the choice you have are drastically different situations, and it’s concerning how many people are incapable of unwilling to tell the difference between the two.
The real world isn’t black and white, like in your morally superior fantasy. I hope your satisfaction lasts through the takeover of the nation, you shortsighted twat.
We are enjoying the fruits of constantly lowering our moral standards. We see more anger towards those who where critical of the genocide than those who needlessly insisted on perpetuating it.
No sane people were fine with it, but sane people have to live in the real world and not believe some fucking fantasy that there was another option at the time.
Should probably blame the people who actually voted for the guy and not an unrelated third party
Bunch of butthurt authoritarians whining about people they failed to engage and saying “but that’s the system we’re in” like that doesn’t apply equally to having to convince people to vote FOR you
Blaming both camps is the best way to go. But why spend efforts blaming the Trump voters? Presumably, they aren’t subject to appeals of logic or compassion or they wouldn’t have voted for him in the first place. So we know they’re pieces of shit. But the jury is still out on the protest non-voters. Did they fail to vote because they disagreed with kamala on a minority of her positions, or did they just not want to elect a brown woman? Assuming that they understood the choices of outcomes between candidates, they voluntarily chose to ignore the greater good for their own personal disagreement. Additionally, there’s evidence that if those protest voters had voted for Kamala she would have won. Therefore, they are to blame. To ignore that is to be an apologist for those at fault.
Interesting that such a fucked system exists that could allow the 50/50 chance that who wins an election could singlehandedly decide if everything is fascism and genocide or not, with what appears to be no real checks of power in place.
And you choose to blame those who have nearly no control over said system.
Lemmy is also a tiny community relative to other similar communities online. Lenmy is also not even just people in the US. You also don’t know how many of those posts were trolls or bots.
It sure seems to me that the larger system and set of choices are completely fucked to begin with and gives the “people” next to no options or say in much of anything.
But yes. If Lemmy people had not slammed Harris… then… something might have been… different?
That’s the thing American citizens/voters need to remember if/when we get past this term: Trump didn’t do this by himself. He was enabled and empowered by Republican (and a significant number of Democrat) members of legislation, as well as crooked judges across every level from state to Supreme. Trump will be kicked out and Republicans will say “Phew, that guy was a disaster! Right, guys? Good thing we all worked together and survived it.” And we can’t just let them do it; everyone currently serving in office from the GOP and 60% (if I’m being very generous to the remainder) of the Democrats should be barred from holding office again. Extend that to the judges too.
The GOP has worked hard to sew shite into every strand of the fabric that binds the nation together. And so insiduously that many idiots will stare at a shite-brown rag and say it’s still the same, ol’ Red, White, and Blue they remember.
So, yes, if you were in front of the trolley lever, you’d remark “Wow, this system is fucked. Why do we even have trolleys? Shouldn’t they have brakes?”
None of you crypto-nazis can be honest about this discussion. You keep lying and presenting the choice as between two unequally bad options. If anything the democrats have been objectively worse in hindsight. There would have been no ceasefire if you had your way.
Now that Trump is in office you want to put on your resistance hats again like we didn’t all just watch you rabidly support the genocide yourselves.
Man I really wish you guys elected Harris or Joe Biden to sit back and watch this happen instead of talking about it openly, that would have been great for the Palestinians.
I’d rather have someone watch me fight a bear then have them help the bear by shooting me, and the rest of my family, repeatedly while I fight it. So yeah really would’ve been a lot better.
Watch this happen, as in: they wouldn’t have “managed” Gaza themselves, but helped Israel or something like the PA control it. Even if I actually claimed that, you are telling me you didn’t know the US was helping Israel when Biden was in office?
You made the claim. I continued by pointing out that the alternative is WAY worse using your same claim. Are you really this obtuse in real life? Or just on the internet?
Why are you quoting someone being objectively correct and dancing around like you won something? Have you spontaneously grown a brain and are now taking exception to the fact that the democrats are worse than ‘just watching’?
To clarify, I don’t think any of us are winning. They made the claim that Biden was just sitting and back and watching. I’m asserting, using their same claim, that the alternative is worse, while also making fun of the fact that watching someone fight a bear and not helping is objectively terrible. Do you really think this analogy makes Biden/the DNC out to be a great people?
Sure. Maybe they just kneecap you while you’re fighting the bear? I’m not sure that really flows from the above conversation though and kinda feel like you’re saying I’m brainless cause I didn’t go far enough with my bear fight analogy… Which seems a little extreme considering I equated them to someone that would just watch you get mauled by a bear and do nothing.
Hey does Pepperidge farms remember all the fucking morons on Lemmy urging not to vote for Harris because she was allegedly complicit in genocide? I sure as shit do.
Know what’s gonna be objectively worse, 100% regardless of the veracity those allegations? The reality that they helped forge instead.
Honestly not sure why it hasn’t been suggested that the ‘no vote’ bullshit was a tactic to get Repubs the win. Sure as hell worked and didn’t do anything to solve the issue, as we can blatantly see now.
The point was to pressure the Dems into giving up on genocide. You wanna talk about “pepperidge farm remembers”, I got one for ya
Remember when the Dems thought they could win while actively telling people who were anti genocide to go fuck themselves?
Hey, what’s weirder? Not voting for someone committing genocide, or being unwilling to stop committing a genocide even if it costs you the election?
How does it feel that the only thing that Harris had to do was say “I will stop weapons to Israel” and she would of won?
You can’t keep blaming the voters when the strategy was at fault. They knew they would lose votes. They thought they could court the centrists and liberal Republicans to make up for it. They were so fucking wrong. And somehow it’s not their own fault for having the worst campaign strategy known to man.
Like, Christ. Y’all ain’t ever gonna stop trying to blame leftists. You’ll be up against the wall with leftists fighting for your life and you’ll still be like “can’t believe you didn’t vote Harris”. I can’t believe Harris threw away the election over the continued genocide of palastinians. That’s fucking crazy. Is that not crazy to you? You don’t find it fucking insane that the Dems would rather a fascist state than stop actively committing a genocide? Cause that’s the fucking Gambit they ran and look where we are.
Look. I’m pissed. Your pissed. But we are just people with no power. Same with all those voters you wanna complain about. All we have is the ability to yell and vote. And while I voted for Harris out of fucking fear, I cannot blame the people who yelled “I will not vote for you if you keep committing genocide” and were fucking CALLED ON THAT SHIT. What kind of monster gambles with their own base over a fucking genocide?
As a fellow reluctant Harris voter, what upsets me the most is that the numbers people have run shows that no, actually, genocide was not the deciding factor in this election, which is kind of an indictment of America itself, but regardless, I’m sick of leftists being blamed when all the ones I know STILL voted Harris and the data shows that it wasn’t leftist that didn’t turn out, it was centrists. Harris didn’t have a voter base. Sure, some dems turned out, but she didn’t actually inspire people to vote, and that’s basically the only way dems win.
voting is power, hell not voting is power. is it a fair system?
fuck no, but not voting did help get us here
disclaimer: gerrymandering and voter suppression also played a huge role
GeNoCiDe jOe!!!
I don’t think history looks back negatively on any “I won’t support [a little] genocide” crowd, if there isn’t maybe this will be the first.
Is there a particular “this group of common folk opposed Hitler wrongly, everything’s their fault” narrative that is common? I meant this as a rant, but I’m too ignorant and perhaps there is. Obviously, Nazis and Nazi supporters are criticised. There’s those in power that handed it off to Hitler that take some flak. But those without power and also didn’t support Hitler what criticisms do they come under
Learning the lessons of history and who future generations are going to blame for the here and now. Is it going to be leftists that didn’t vote Nazi?
It’s also obvious that Trump and BB we’re coordinating during the election to ensure Biden couldn’t get a ceasefire deal in place in order to harm him politically. But as soon as Trump takes the office they just agree to a ceasefire no problem (as if that hadn’t been the plan all along) aaaaaaand then Trump goes off about finishing the job and annexing the whole west bank for the US. What a fucking surprise.
I thought the ceasefire happened under Biden, but after the election had already been lost?
‘allegedly’
The mental gymnastics will only intensify as these fucking crypto-nazis get to distance themselves from their beliefs and actions of just a few months ago.
I mean she entirely was.
And considering the US blocked every ceasefire under her and Biden, and people pointed out even a year ago that the US and Israel want an alternative to the Suez canal, and people pointed out that Israel was moving Palestinians out with the US’s help in order to do this, all that happened. Pretty sure it was going exactly the same way. If you haven’t noticed, democrats aren’t exactly sitting up and saying this is ethnic cleansing or genocide even now. Or trying to fight it.
You’re an idiot and the reason Trump won and is ruining the country. Congrats you enlightened centrist. Stupid fuck
Harris was complicit in genocide.
Trump loudly talked about how he would make the genocide worse.
Why absolve Harris in an attempt to strengthen your argument?
nobody is absolving Harris. She was the lesser evil, and many people chose not to choose, resulting in the greater evil anyways.
I still can’t get over how they were essentially presented with a simplified version of the trolley problem and chose to not pull the lever.
By their own narrative that “the democrats are complicit in a genocide in Gaza”, they were aware that Palestinians were metaphorically tied to both tracks, yet decided to not pull the lever when America itself and every marginalized person living within was also on the track the trolley barreled towards.
It’s almost like single-issue voters aren’t very good at logic problems…
I suspected that many of the accounts were Russian plants or Trump supporters trying to divide the Democrat vote. Most of the time when I checked account age they were made either that day or the day before.
I know that Lemmy is new and all but still was sus.
I haven’t gone back to accounts to see if they are still active. I suspect that they aren’t.
I suspect that what we saw here on lemmy were actual people who had been indoctrinated elsewhere.
Lemmy isn’t really big enough to be a target for bots and so on.
Bots are cheap to write. That’s naive to think there wasn’t a disinformation war going on with bots being on the forefront of it.
Calling it simplified does a disservice of the real world impacts of the “trolley” - especially since unlike a thought experiment - this trolley problem is physically constructed by people to achieve imperialistic goals - so expending energy blaming random lemmings for this - instead of figuring out who built, maintains and presents the trolley as the only option and how to dismantle it seems useless.
I believe we should avoid infighting and actually organize to do something so we don’t have to choose if we pull the lever or not every 4 years (if there even is another election…)
I find it scary how easily people where fine with having genocide on both sides of the ticket.
Not having a choice and being fine with with the choice you have are drastically different situations, and it’s concerning how many people are incapable of unwilling to tell the difference between the two.
The real world isn’t black and white, like in your morally superior fantasy. I hope your satisfaction lasts through the takeover of the nation, you shortsighted twat.
We are enjoying the fruits of constantly lowering our moral standards. We see more anger towards those who where critical of the genocide than those who needlessly insisted on perpetuating it.
That anger is deserved, did you read the image in this post?
No sane people were fine with it, but sane people have to live in the real world and not believe some fucking fantasy that there was another option at the time.
The democrats did have another option at the time.
Cool, we remember - now what? What do we materially do now to resist that isn’t just blaming non-voters online?
There aren’t many options… Which is probably why op is blaming non-voters, who are complicit in creating our current situation.
Should probably blame the people who actually voted for the guy and not an unrelated third party
Bunch of butthurt authoritarians whining about people they failed to engage and saying “but that’s the system we’re in” like that doesn’t apply equally to having to convince people to vote FOR you
Blaming both camps is the best way to go. But why spend efforts blaming the Trump voters? Presumably, they aren’t subject to appeals of logic or compassion or they wouldn’t have voted for him in the first place. So we know they’re pieces of shit. But the jury is still out on the protest non-voters. Did they fail to vote because they disagreed with kamala on a minority of her positions, or did they just not want to elect a brown woman? Assuming that they understood the choices of outcomes between candidates, they voluntarily chose to ignore the greater good for their own personal disagreement. Additionally, there’s evidence that if those protest voters had voted for Kamala she would have won. Therefore, they are to blame. To ignore that is to be an apologist for those at fault.
I remember the BBC manufacturing consent for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris complicity genocide as well.
Interesting that such a fucked system exists that could allow the 50/50 chance that who wins an election could singlehandedly decide if everything is fascism and genocide or not, with what appears to be no real checks of power in place.
And you choose to blame those who have nearly no control over said system.
Lemmy is also a tiny community relative to other similar communities online. Lenmy is also not even just people in the US. You also don’t know how many of those posts were trolls or bots.
It sure seems to me that the larger system and set of choices are completely fucked to begin with and gives the “people” next to no options or say in much of anything.
But yes. If Lemmy people had not slammed Harris… then… something might have been… different?
That’s the thing American citizens/voters need to remember if/when we get past this term: Trump didn’t do this by himself. He was enabled and empowered by Republican (and a significant number of Democrat) members of legislation, as well as crooked judges across every level from state to Supreme. Trump will be kicked out and Republicans will say “Phew, that guy was a disaster! Right, guys? Good thing we all worked together and survived it.” And we can’t just let them do it; everyone currently serving in office from the GOP and 60% (if I’m being very generous to the remainder) of the Democrats should be barred from holding office again. Extend that to the judges too.
The GOP has worked hard to sew shite into every strand of the fabric that binds the nation together. And so insiduously that many idiots will stare at a shite-brown rag and say it’s still the same, ol’ Red, White, and Blue they remember.
The system is fucked but we exist within that system.
So, yes, if you were in front of the trolley lever, you’d remark “Wow, this system is fucked. Why do we even have trolleys? Shouldn’t they have brakes?”
…and then not pull the lever.
None of you crypto-nazis can be honest about this discussion. You keep lying and presenting the choice as between two unequally bad options. If anything the democrats have been objectively worse in hindsight. There would have been no ceasefire if you had your way.
Now that Trump is in office you want to put on your resistance hats again like we didn’t all just watch you rabidly support the genocide yourselves.
This is why people disregard your opinions, because you lie and pretend that they weren’t unequally bad options.
They were both bad options, but saying they’re equal tells me you don’t pay attention or are intentionally lying.
Man I really wish you guys elected Harris or Joe Biden to sit back and watch this happen instead of talking about it openly, that would have been great for the Palestinians.
I’d rather have someone watch me fight a bear then have them help the bear by shooting me, and the rest of my family, repeatedly while I fight it. So yeah really would’ve been a lot better.
And by watch, I mean supply the bear with billions worth of bombs
I’m not the one that made the claim. I’m merely carrying on the anaolgy. Read what I replied to you jackwagon.
What the heck are you even on about? Did you reply to the wrong person?
Removed by mod
This is you. You said this. You made the claim like mere minutes ago.
Watch this happen, as in: they wouldn’t have “managed” Gaza themselves, but helped Israel or something like the PA control it. Even if I actually claimed that, you are telling me you didn’t know the US was helping Israel when Biden was in office?
You made the claim. I continued by pointing out that the alternative is WAY worse using your same claim. Are you really this obtuse in real life? Or just on the internet?
Why are you quoting someone being objectively correct and dancing around like you won something? Have you spontaneously grown a brain and are now taking exception to the fact that the democrats are worse than ‘just watching’?
To clarify, I don’t think any of us are winning. They made the claim that Biden was just sitting and back and watching. I’m asserting, using their same claim, that the alternative is worse, while also making fun of the fact that watching someone fight a bear and not helping is objectively terrible. Do you really think this analogy makes Biden/the DNC out to be a great people?
It dishonestly presents them as being better people than they are
Sure. Maybe they just kneecap you while you’re fighting the bear? I’m not sure that really flows from the above conversation though and kinda feel like you’re saying I’m brainless cause I didn’t go far enough with my bear fight analogy… Which seems a little extreme considering I equated them to someone that would just watch you get mauled by a bear and do nothing.