- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
People are getting fed up with all the useless tech in their cars — For the first time in 28 years of JD Power’s car owner survey, there is a consecutive year-over-year decline in satisfaction, wit…::People are dissatisfied with the technology in their cars, according to a new survey from JD Power. They especially don’t like the native infotainment systems.
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Some proposed design principles:
- It’s a car.
- It’s not a goddamn TV.
- It’s not your goddamn ads platform or subscription service.
- It is, however, a piece of life-safety-critical equipment.
- Because it’s a car, the driver wants to deal with car stuff like driving, navigating, fuel, roads, obstacles, and not killing people.
- They also want to make it passably comfortable by messing with the heat or AC, the fans, the windows, and the fucking moon roof.
- Messing with your phone while driving is Actually Illegal these days in civilized parts of the planet. This is for good reason: people get killed that way.
- If the car requires messing with your phone, or messing with something that is basically your phone, then you have failed.
- There should be a big knob with a fan icon on it. Turning this knob all the way to the left causes the fan to turn off all the way. Turning the knob all the way to the right causes the fan to turn on all the way.
- If I ever have to use a touchscreen to control the side mirrors, I will become an extremely unhappy ape.
I would pay more to get a car with more buttons than you can comprehend and a small little infotainment system that allows you to play music than a super futuristic car with a iPad in the center and nothing else in the center console area.
physical buttons for the important stuff; stuff like setting interior RBG lighting color and intensity? that can go on soft buttons.
If a feature can go on soft buttons, it can stay at the fucking factory.
EQ for the sound system?
Adjusting mirrors and seats can go on the touch screen as you do that before the drive and I don’t think those can stay at the factory.
No thanks, mirrors and seats are too important for the touch screen and sometimes need to be adjusted while driving, as you adjust your sitting position.
And really, I don’t want to spend an extra 10 seconds (if you know the car) or 2 minutes (if it’s someone else’s) to get the seat and mirrors adjusted beofre a drive. I want to get in the car, adjust things quickly, and go.
How are you people moving in your seat this much? I never had to adjust anything but the rear view mirror and that is manual anyway.
I’ve adjusted mine twice in the last month alone because I needed to fold down the rear seats. But also sometimes you borrow your car to someone who doesn’t have a memory setting. Or your car doesn’t have memory seats and has multiple users.
If I have to use a touchscreen to adjust my seat once a month, that’s 11 times a year too much for me. Buttons? Fine. Levers and wheels like in old cars? Also fine.
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I guess I like the idea of having tech in my vehicle, but it doesn’t work right. I’ve found so many flaws in the software that can’t be remedied. It’s not designed with user control/customization as the main priority. Furthermore, it’s tied to main functionality of the vehicle which is restrictive in what it allows you to do upgrade wise.
As an audio enthusiast, it sucks that I can’t upgrade my stereo/audio system.
What would be ideal in my world is open, user focused technology, upgradeable and repairable, and not this proprietary bullshit that we currently have. This is not intelligent design.
Also, while I’m thinking about it, it’s bullshit that we are forced into these operating systems. Uconnect is garbage. Just give me stock android, with the ability to do what I want to with the hardware in the way that I see fit. The responsibility, freedom, and trust of the consumer has been predetermined. I don’t like that.
As an audio enthusiast, it sucks that I can’t upgrade my stereo/audio system.
Exactly! I can have the system I want but having it somehow means no heated seats in the winter.
…useless tech
Oh, it is “useful”; to the real ‘owners’ of “your” car…
Yup. I’m in Automotive, I work for a company that makes software for basically any car brand you can think of. I just recently left an internally developed project that aimed to create a personal assistant in the car. It was terribly ran and will go nowhere, but other departments in other companies will probably have more success, especially since the rise of chatgpt.
To add to your point though - the main idea on how to sell this assistant to car makers was the features, but the driving force behind developing the project was customer data. Collect a huge amount of info from customers, info that is shared with the car brand, but also accessible to us. To give some credit, discussions were never about using it for evil purposes - imagine a secretary knowing their boss’ schedule, our software would make suggestions like “you can’t make your 1 PM luch appointment with the client, would you like to reschedule it” and “I see you’re headed to Chicago and will arrive in 2 hours, should I make a reservation at that restaurant you like?” or some shit like that. But we all know that it’s not the engineers who decide what the company does with the data once access to that data exists. And knowing where a user eats, having access to their calendar, having access to their phone… This shit can get out of hand so easily when a budget-oriented executive type decides it’s time for this project to be even more profitable by selling the data to advertisers.
Last I heard before I left, the plan was to “get consent” to process this data through a disclaimer when booting the car’s infotainment system, saying that attached devices share data with our servers etc. Read the manuals, ToS and pop-ups and don’t connect your devices to systems that do this. You’re already the client when buying a car worth thousands of dollars. Don’t also be the product.
such bullshit. how can engineers not let this happen?
Unfortunately I think engineers, as employees of a company, don’t have a lot of power. You aren’t typically the one making feature decisions. You can always try to talk product people out of bad ideas, but at some point if you refuse to do what you’ve been told to, you lose your job. Some engineers are in a financial position to take that high road, but a lot aren’t. And then even if you do quit, there will always be someone else willing to do what you aren’t.
I think as long as there is money in doing unethical (but legal) things, those things will continue to happen
so this is why i think that reasonable engineers (and most actual engineers are reasonable, hence being an “engineer”) should get together and make good stuff. stuff that is not corrupted by perverse incentives. an engineer is capable of understanding the flaws of an economy and how that can be detrimental to the functionality of some tool or system.
unfortunately as long as they’re still subject to the whims of global capitalism, they will never be free from perverse incentives
The more features the more they can charge. The more features the more things there are to break. The more there is to break the more the dealers make fixing things.
I want to replace my truck with an electric one. But no one is making bare bones electric vehicles. My current truck has an AM/FM stereo and HVAC. Those are it’s only features and I’m fine with that. I use a FM Bluetooth adapter in my cigarette lighter. If it dies I can replace it myself for $20. My phone does the GPS. There will never be an electric vehicle that basic. And Trucks keep getting shorter beds that are higher off the ground. I need to be able to sling drywall and plywood into the top of my bed. That gets harder and harder as the bed gets taller.
I’m driving a 2004 with a broken antenna (no radio). All I want in my next car is a good mount for my phone and Bluetooth speakers / mic.
My 2017 van is surprisingly good with CarPlay. So I could go that route.
I really don’t want to deal with any of the car manufacturers software.
The increasing tech-ification of (all) cars played a role in reducing how much I want a car. Now I’m yearning for the simplicity and visceral feel of a motorcycle, and I will give in to these temptations soon.
I have been saying this for years. The last thing your car should do is take your eyes off the road. This is a 1-3 ton box of metal hurdling at 60+ miles down the highway next to a bunch of other metal boxes that can all kill each other.
And car manufacturers seem to be in love with the idea of you forgetting you’re even driving. Add on all the bs lane assisting, warning bells, alerts, automatic correction, and the driver is convinced that the car will protect them.
These are all systems built on software. Last time I checked, that shit has never been reliable. If the software fails, the manufacturer can just hide behind “They weren’t paying attention!”
Mfer, YOU TRAINED THEM TO IGNORE IT. I don’t know what I’m going to do when all the cars from before touchscreens and digital gauges are no longer running or affordable because I hate the idea of having to look at a screen to change volume or turn on the AC.
Modern cars can suck a fuck.
I’d argue that the safety assistance tech is very, very good and should continue.
Fucking touch screens for HVAC and audio controls are a menace though. How do regulatory agencies allow this?
Then there’s the fucking warning message not to look at your screen that starts every time I turn it on. 90% of the time I am not looking at the screen, so I don’t realize I have to click through their warning message until I’m already driving. All they achieved is distracting me and making me look away from the road.
I was in a wreck three weeks ago that may have been avoided if I had not needed to look back and check my blindspot. I made damn sure that my new car had blindspot monitoring. 360° cameras is a bit much but just that little bit of tech can make a big difference.
Mfer, YOU TRAINED THEM TO IGNORE IT
Remember when a self-driving car killed someone walking their bike in Arizona, while the car’s “handler” was watching a movie on their tablet?
Yeah, the employee should have been paying attention, but it’s not realistic to expect someone to stay alert for an 8-hour shift where the task is as monotonous as watching a car drive itself. That’s why commercial transport drivers have mandated breaks and why two pilots are in charge of an airplane at a time.
To be clear, I am in favour of self-driving cars and don’t think they need to be perfect, just better than the average human, but the companies training them need to have standards that are both realistic and safe.
but it’s not realistic to expect someone to stay alert for an 8-hour shift where the task is as monotonous as watching a car drive itself.
It wasn’t an 8 hour shift and watching the car was the actual job, come on! The driver was the tester. They were testing a system which wasn’t yet ready to go untested. The accident is entirely the fault of the driver in that case.
And it’s not like their reflexes were slower because of boredom. No. They were not paying any attention at all. They were watching a video. That is gross negligence and not the fault of the car or of the manufacturer.
They were testing. While it almost certainly wasn’t explicit, they were also testing the worst self-driving car operators. And human nature. Yes, it was their job and they should have been paying close attention every second. But if they were… Is it possible a worse (less-safe) self-driving car would have made it to market? I think fatalities from self-driving cars are going to happen regardless, whether during or after the testing process, and I also think that’s horrible…
But if they were… Is it possible a worse (less-safe) self-driving car would have made it to market?
The purpose of the testing was to make sure that good products made it to the market. Events like these which are human error have created bad press and have set the concept back by years. And these are not years of research, no. These are years in which the projects have been put on the back burner and we’re getting small increments like lane assist which are bad (as in poor quality) most of the time and give users the false feeling that they have a self driving car.
I think fatalities from self-driving cars are going to happen regardless, whether during or after the testing process, and I also think that’s horrible…
I don’t think that’s the correct way to look at it. Accidents will happen. It is impossible to prevent all of them. But the total number of fatalities would go down dramatically if self driving cars would be more present on the roads and that is a huge win.
42,795 people died in motor vehicle traffic crashes in US alone in 2022. I think that even with the current technology, this number would still be reduced by half and that is a huge win.
The purpose of the testing was to make sure that good products made it to the market.
No, the purpose of testing is to make sure profitable products make it to market. Even the most good-intentioned company (do they exist?) has their priorities set by shareholders.
For example, airlines have a set price they will pay the families of people killed by them. Is it moral? Is it ethical? No. It is financial. What can they offer, without having to enact costly behavior and safety overhauls…
What can they offer, without having to enact costly behavior and safety overhauls…
Flying is the safest, most regulated, way of travel. There are virtually no accidents because of these regulations. Why would there be a need for an overhaul?
Same reason I’m still driving an older truck. While I’ve been wanting to upgrade to a new truck, I don’t want to deal with the computer controlling every aspect of the vehicle (breaks, accelerator, lights, etc.) As it is now, if I want to turn my headlights on, a relay controls it. Same with the turn signal, radio, A/C, and the list goes on
I don’t get how my headlights can be set to off and for some reason they are still on. And I don’t need my headlights to stay on for 30 seconds after I leave my car, I want to know that my lights are off and I won’t wake up to a dead battery. (Luckily I just figured out how to disable this)
And automatic lift gates that don’t open unless 10 unknown conditions are met is infuriating. It’s not a useful feature unless your disabled.
I do like those unlock buttons on the door handles when your keys are nearby though… When they work anyways.
I do like those unlock buttons on the door handles when your keys are nearby though… When they work anyways.
My Dad has an '08 Toyota Prius that was gifted to him recently. He loves being able to just unlock the door by grabbing the handle. I tried it out for about a week when he was still getting the tags for it and also enjoyed it.
My '10 Ford Ranger is a fleet truck, so simplified its an XL with zero options. The only “upgrade” might’ve been the seats, vinyl instead of cloth. No electronic locks, no alarm, no electronic windows.
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Nobody’s getting arrested for accidentally calling 911.
This trend is why I am saving to swap the engine on my car when it blows. I don’t like any screens in my car but a digital clock, and maybe a readout on the dash. I just want a fun, reliable vehicle with excellent AC, good safety ratings, and decent fuel mileage. Power windows are a bonus. Lol
I don’t like any screens in my car
I thought I didn’t either until I got a car with a built-in backup cam. Extremely helpful, and I feel vulnerable in a car without it.
In the US, they’re mandatory in all new vehicles.
I’d wager this is part of the reason for the ubiquitousness of touchscreens.
CarPlay is the truth. All that built in shit is utter trash.
Try having an infotainment system that will just randomly disconnect and crash Android Auto every ~10 minutes. I don’t own a car myself, but instead use a non-profit car rental service, so I’ve tried my fair share of different manufacturers and models. The worst of them all is the one in Skoda Superb (VW group company), if you put it back from reverse into drive, it would normally just freeze the entire screen while still on rear camera, and the front sensors wouldn’t work. Then it would reboot the whole infotainment system after some minutes.
The worst physical interface can also be found in VW group cars, both VW ID3 and Cupra Born have a completely horrible capacitive touch button setup, which makes you unintendedly touch them when just holding the steering wheel, doing things like disabling lane control, changing cruise control etc. They said they chose them because they wanted to give a “premium feel”, which indicates they basically did zero user testing. At least they are changing to physical buttons for new models. The software is pretty bad as well, laggy and unintuitive menus. Their CEO recently resigned, and they’ve put $9 billion into increasing their developer team past 10k people, so I assume it has been acknowledged and will get better in newer models.
It’s gotten to the point where I will just avoid VW group brands alltogether when booking a car.
No need to add anything to this, I got a Golf 8 🤣
Tbh the infotainment is kinda glitchy when reversing, but never to the point of completely crashing.
That pain with capacitive buttons is real tho.
The older I get and the more I get into tech, the less I want of it in my life. Especially when driving two tons of metal on the highway. Fuck that noise.
the “term” technology has been corrupted. what people call “tech” is not tech, it is gadgetry.
Just give me an amp with Bluetooth so I can play my phone through the car speakers. Anything the car makers produce will be woefully out of date before I sell the car.
see also: every mid-to-late 00’s car with specific iPod connection ports
i wonder if what the cassette tape adapter of the future will be like for people into vintage cars from 2010-2023?
I have a feeling this era of cars won’t last long enough to become vintage
but radio will outlive everything, so those low FM station override things could make a comeback
I am a big FM radio user. I lurve that free RF
I’m a techie at heart.
But the only thing my car needs to do is act as a Bluetooth speaker/mic for my phone, and have a wireless charging mount.
When I need to use the phone for GPS/etc it goes on the mount.
When I turn on my car it connects to my phone over Bluetooth and starts playing music. Even if it’s in my pocket (shorter trips)
It works, it’s fast, it’s simple.
The irony is all these fancy head units wait until you pull out of the driveway and then throw up a big on screen warning about distracted driving. That you then have to take your eyes off the road to dismiss by pressing OK.
Just give me a screen for Android auto and that alone. Everything else should be knobs, especially climate controls
Moving parts cost money and wear out.
And if there’s one thing the auto manufacturers are good at, it’s cutting costs.
Touch screens break and wear too, and it’s more expensive to replace a touch screen than an AC fan knob.
Unless it happens during warranty, that costs money to the user not the manufacturer.
