• Jakdracula@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    10
    arrow-down
    27
    ·
    1 year ago

    The fire department showed up and the move members started shooting at them, which is why the fire department moved back.

    • BossDj@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      25
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Police and MOVE were still exchanging gunfire, so the firefighters were ordered to back away.

      Also, to add some intent, the police plan was to make a hole in the roof through which they could shoot year gas and force MOVE members to evacuate. Witnesses did see officers on the adjoining buildings ready to go. It was a stupid plan.

      The conspiracy part comes in, though, because we really only have the word of the police on all of this, since all but two of the MOVE people died, and one was a child

      • Cethin@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        Isn’t most tear gas flammable? What the fuck is wrong with our cops and why are they so stupid?

      • Jakdracula@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        12
        ·
        1 year ago

        You said above “the fire department showed up and let it continue to burn” This is a completely inaccurate statement. The fire department was there from the beginning and were ordered to move back because of the gunfire. Your statement is saying that the fire department showed up at sometime during the event and just waited around and let it continue to burn, which is absolutely untrue .

        • orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          17
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          1 year ago

          It’s not inaccurate. That’s what happened because the police decided to corner MOVE members in their home and then fired at them as they tried to move outside. The goal from the start was to kill everyone there and in their rage, they devised easily one of the stupidest plans ever. The police forced people into a corner and they retaliated. The police also got hit with a lawsuit in federal court for use of excessive force and illegal search and seizure.

          We can split hairs on phrasing, but the police are to blame for the entire thing and crafted a scenario where the fire department’s hands were tied.

            • orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              edit-2
              1 year ago

              It was well known that the police disliked MOVE as a collective. That’s why they got slapped with a lawsuit by a federal judge for excessive force, illegal search and illegal seizure. They killed women and children with their plan because of their carelessness, and fired upon anyone that ran from the building they set on fire with their bombs.

              Your “citation” is cops and their interactions with black folk on the daily. I’m not gonna play this game where the opposition picks apart the irrelevant parts of a stance to try to weaken it.

              Edit: here’s your citation

              • merc@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                0
                ·
                1 year ago

                They killed women and children with their plan because of their carelessness

                So, it wasn’t intentional.

                Your “citation” is cops and their interactions with black folk on the daily

                So, cruelty, indifference, but not an actual desire to murder all of them?

                Edit: here’s your citation

                I can’t read that because it requires a subscription, but I very much doubt it says “the police plan was to kill everyone, and here’s the evidence for that”.

                • orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  If that wasn’t the intended plan with what they carried out, it was definitely a benefit based on the fact that police were already at odds with MOVE. So sure, no one sat at a table in a backroom and said “we’re going to kill them all” while cackling, but it was definitely not something they were opposed to based on their actions (which involved so much overreach and violation of rights that even the city and a federal judge couldn’t put a lid on it).

                  The article talks about how all of the deaths involved in the MOVE shootout were eventually re-categorized as homicides instead of their initial categorization of “accidental”.

                  After nearly four decades, Philadelphia has acknowledged that it was no accident when six adults and five children died in the MOVE bombing.

                  The decision to amend the death certificates followed an independent investigation released this summer into how victims’ remains from the MOVE bombing languished in a cardboard box on a basement shelf at the Medical Examiner’s Office until 2021. The negligence led to widespread outrage and resignations. Reclassifying the deaths as homicides was among the recommendations in a 257-page report released in June that traced the office’s failures.

                  It’s really not a stretch to think that the police didn’t want all of MOVE completely eliminated. They were unwilling to work with MOVE and MOVE was unwilling to bend to an organization that constantly violated the civil rights of the black community.

                  • merc@sh.itjust.works
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    0
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    the deaths involved in the MOVE shootout were eventually re-categorized as homicides

                    Homicides? Do you mean first degree murder? Because to clear the bar you’re attempting to clear you need to prove that “The goal from the start was to kill everyone there”.

    • orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      14
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      None of it would’ve taken place if the police weren’t so fucking stupid with their plan. I get why the fire dept. held back, but the police created that entire scenario.

      Also, my statement isn’t wrong.