Politico
I don’t know how anyone can genuinely believe that Republicans are for small government and say the competition is good when they’re using government to stifle competition.
If you know nothing you’ll believe anything.
Follow that with "Anyone who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities”… and you start to get a feel for the playbook the GOP is using
It’s truly amazing how stupid they can be though. It probably exceeded all of our expectations.
These backward-ass clowns are going to be the bane of this world.
That’s a tough one. I have a Tesla. I don’t pay fuel tax and electric cars weigh a lot which does damage the road.
It shouldn’t be double but we all need to pay for the roads.
In my ideal world, we’d have a full carbon tax as well as a vehicle weight tax, and we’d use part of that to fund more electrified public transit (e.g., trains, trams, trolleybuses) and bike infrastructure. Plus we need to actually legalize dense, walkable urbanism. The zoning codes and parking minimums in North America make it literally illegal to build anything dense, walkable, and transit-oriented across almost all the urban land, resulting in miles and miles of government-mandated sprawl.
The future of sustainable urban is truly in public transit and micromobility – car dependency just doesn’t make any sense in cities, as no amount of electric cars can make up for the harm caused by sprawling, car-dependent land use. Electric cars are obviously less bad than ICE cars, but just swapping out ICE cars for electric is not actually financially, socially, or environmentally sustainable.
We should still have electric cars for the use cases (e.g., rural areas) for which you truly do need them, but the vehicle weight arms race (especially for trucks and SUVs) is getting out of control and we need the electric cars we would still have to be much smaller and lighter like this. Fewer electric hummers, more electric kei trucks, more electric trains, more electric bikes.
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I am a Republican and I hate their stance on electric cars, walkable cities, etc. For some reason, the party has taken an ignorant and hard stance against electric.
Electric cars currently are not better for the environment in any measurable way. I am OK with that since the technology is growing. It will get much better. As we add solar panels to homes or nuclear power that will greatly help since we will not be burning fossil fuels.
My republican friends all tease me because of my Tesla. In return, I took them for a ride and I will say it changed their opinion. They thought it would be slow and clunky. Even the model 3 is a rocket with great handling.
People always make weird claims like oh, the range is so limited. I travel often for work and honestly, the range isn’t that big of a deal.
I use to live in a larger city that had public transportation and it was much more walkable. Honestly, it was better than i had imagined. It was wonderful to complete more daily chores by walking. I have always liked to walk but it was also less stressful. I still had a car but I drove it once or twice every few months when I had to do something further away.
The largest issue with electric cars is the cost and the ability to charge. When I lived in the larger city, charging was hard. To add it to my condo was going to cost 20K. That is a something that needs to be figured out and put in the laws. The building was just milking it and it would have not been cost effective.
I am a Republican and I hate their stance on electric cars, walkable cities, etc. For some reason, the party has taken an ignorant and hard stance against electric.
Could you look at other stances too? It’s not just this.
Such as? I would prefer to stay on the topic of electric cars. You can see my post history and I am a very moderate Republican. I have been my whole life.
Did you, self-declared “very moderate” Republican, vote for Trump either time?
Because, historically, Hillary and Biden would be considered very moderate Republicans.
And what does this have to do with electric cars?
- No exceptions for rape and incest.
- Supporting 1/6
- Observation of them being worse for the economy after investigating state of economy for decades
- Closing of majority-black voting poll locations.
And this is a short list
Anyone who’s a republican in 2023 is either an idiot, an asshole, or both.
No exceptions for rape and incest.
The alternative currently being no restrictions whatsoever, which, statistically speaking, is more relevant than a small % worth of exceptions. Make me Supreme overlord of the universe and you bet you’ll have a few exceptions.
Supporting 1/6
Burn the fucking government to the ground for all I care.
Observation of them being worse for the economy after investigating state of economy for decades
OK and? I’m not playing some strategy game here. Optimizing existence isn’t the goal. “the economy” isn’t some God we must appease.
Closing of majority-black voting poll locations.
Pretty fucking bottom of the barrel shit to be deciding a vote based on. Decide polling locations by throwing a dart at a map for all I care.
It shouldn’t be double but we all need to pay for the roads.
only double would be a welcome change in the state of Ohio.
- Car cost = $31/year
- Truck (non commercial)=$46/year to $80/year
- Hybrid car = $131/year
- EV car = $231 year
Gas tax is only 31 a year?
I haven’t driven a gas car in so long I have no clue what the tax is. Even when I did it was built into the cost of a gallon. I’ve always driven fuel efficient cars.
The one hidden cost of an electric car. Insurance. It’s a lot more per month for a Tesla.
Gas tax is only 31 a year?
Gotcha, I thought you were talking about vehicle registrations.
If the argument is about paying for roads, then big 18 wheelers should be paying multiple orders of magnitude more for the road wear and tear even over EVs.
They do in a round about way. They pay more because they consume more.
My registration was negligible different.
The article is about charging for road use since they don’t pay fuel tax.
The problem is many red states are trying to punish electric cars.
Yeah, it’s tricky though because road damage from weight isn’t a linear thing, but also, trucks aren’t just out there for fun, they’re out there to put products on shelves for consumption.
So if you tax truck registration in Ohio, but then big trucking companies will just register in Mississippi like rental car companies do.
Tax diesel and that will impact a bunch of non semi vehicles.
Hard to make a one size fits all cost.
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AFAIK even the heaviest tesla car has basically nothing on what a semi does to a road.
I mean yeah, obviously, but it isn’t a particularly useful comparison since the two aren’t really alternatives to each other.
The damage to the road based on vehicle weight is exponential, though. A very heavy electric car causes very little additional wear to the roads when compared to a traditional car.
A thousand Tesla’s don’t do as much damage as the daily 3 axle loaded up dump trucks with no registration driving back and forth all day long.
Charge road use taxes by vehicle weight. Yes, electric cars are heavy, but so is the average American vehicle, because people seem to love their enormous trucks. If you have a Model 3 or a roadster, it’s actually lighter than the average.
According to U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, the average weight of a car is around 4094 pounds. A small car weighs around 2600 pounds, while a large car weighs around 4400 pounds.
- Tesla Model X Plaid - 5,390 pounds
- Tesla Model X Standard Range - 5,185 pounds
- Tesla Model S Plaid - 4,766 pounds
- Tesla Model S Long Range - 4,561 pounds
- Tesla Model Y Long Range & Performance - 4,416 pounds
- Tesla Model 3 Long Range & Performance - 4,065 pounds
- Tesla Model 3 Standard Range Plus - 3,582 pounds
- Tesla Roadster - 2,723 pounds
You’ve got it right, but let me expand with the power of mathematical modelling. The average vehicle is, for the last 20 years or so, pegged at 4000 lbs when doing road damage calculations. A Chevy bolt EV is around 3800 lbs, or smaller than average, while Tesla vehicles are like you said. The fourth power law is what is used to estimate road damage, and the take away point from that is that all vehicles in and around that 4000 lb range and nothing, notta, moot, compared to large trucks and shipping rigs.
As an example. Take the bolt EV at 3800 lbs, the F150 at 4200 lbs, and the F350 at 6764 lbs.
The bolt and f150 would have 1900lbs and 2100lbs per axle respectively. Applying the fourth power rule the F150 does (2100/1900)^4= 1.49 times the damage of a Bolt EV. Meanwhile the F350 does , (3382/1900)^4 = 10 times the road damage.
So then, is it true that the F150 and F350 will be made to pay 1.5 and 10 times the registration and fuel taxes of an EV like the Bolt? I have not yet seen this to be true. Now imagine how much damage a delivery van, or large shipping vehicle does.
The other part of this is environmental damage, are these states going to find a way to charge for carbon emissions proportionally from the gas vehicles? Of course not.
In Canada anyway fuel taxes go into general revenue, not to roads, that’s a whole different line of argument.
I’m curious and a nerd about this stuff. Why is road damage estimated using a fourth power law? What is the physical reasoning behind that?
Relevant wiki article : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law
TLDR: we experimented in the 50s and this is the model that fit.
With safety regulations, I thought smaller cars are around 2800-3000lbs now. A 7 year old (2016) Mazda 3 (compact car) is showing as 2900lbs. When you say small are you talking like the sub compact cars? Just trying to get an idea of what small means in this instance.
Compact sedans, and sedans overall are a dying breed. Car manufactures have largely replaced with with compact crossovers, or even worse egg shaped subcompact crossovers.
A new Mazda 3 weights 100-300 pounds more than that 2016. The Buick “code” subcompact egg weighs about the same 3300 pounds. Your more typical Ford explorer weighs 4300-5000 pounds. The escape is surprisingly light at 3300-3900 pounds.
Mazda is also an example of manufactures that try to keep things as light as possible to maintain handling. They also make the 2300 pound Miata.
Oh I’m aware they’re dying in America. I just wanted to see what small car was defined as because unless you get the Miata (which is one of the lightest cars out there) you’re getting up in the weight. Hell, I have a GR86 and it’s supposed to be a lightweight and great handling sports car and it’s 2800lbs empty.
They could just take the money from fossil fuel subsidies. This way, you don’t give people a new reason to not get an EV and we reduce tax revenue used to support the fossil fuel industry.
That would increase the prices for the consumer. I’m fine with that. Gas should be expensive.
Someone downvoted you and the person above you, but the only way to get renewables on par with fossil fuels is to get rid of fossil fuels’ subsidies.
If people are forced to pay the real cost of gas, I imagine things will change rapidly.
Some people have the Reddit attitude here. They just like to downvote because their haters.
Electric is already cheaper but getting rid of the cheap gas will push more people to electric.
I may be a republican but I love electric cars. I’ve always driven fuel efficient cars. I’m dating myself but I drove a geo metro xfi for years.
Climate aside, we need to get away from oil and funding people who dislike us. Climate is another reason but so many people can’t accept the world is changing
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People said my Tesla would chew up tires. I have not had that issue. I am on the same set of tires three years and 50,000 miles later. I have to say overall I have been impressed with the car. The only burning complaint is the paint is hot garbage.
That would have to be one huge payment, though. I can only think of a few cases in my entire life that I’ve bought a tire.
Seems better to me that they collect the taxes from everyone from the income tax and/or business taxes. Everyone uses the roads, even if they don’t have a car.
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Given an average gas tax of 31 cents per gallon, and an average distance driven of 13,489 miles, and an average mpg of 15.7 (for passenger cars), the average driver might pay $266.34/year in gas tax in a year. Let’s say that the driver had to replace all of their tires every 45,000 miles. That means you’d have to recoup that annual gas tax amount 3.33 times in tire taxes. This would add $886.91 to the cost of the tire purchase, or $221.72 for each tire.
I haven’t had to buy tires in a long time (small blessings from Covid), so I had to look up the average cost of a tire at Discount Tire. 16-20" all season tires cost $100-$250 each. Woof! That would take a total tire cost from $400-$1,000 to $1,286.91-$1,886.91.
Don’t drive on any dirty roads, I guess. Those flats are going to be painful!
I would have gone with backward ass-clowns, but both are good.
These backward-ass clowns are
going to bethe bane of this world.
Ah you think downvotes are your ally? You merely adopted the downvotes. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t see the upvotes until I was already a boomer, by then it was nothing to me but turmoil!
“This law was bought for you by Big Oil and the Koch Brothers”
Gooch is clearly a shill in their pockets
“We’re moving so fast to electric vehicles, we’re just making the problems worse,” said state Rep. Jim Gooch ®, the longtime chair of Kentucky’s House energy committee. Those problems are multiplying, he added, as public officials look to electrify government fleets — especially transit systems and school districts.
“I certainly don’t want to put my kids on a school bus that’s electric. I just don’t want to do it,” Gooch said. “And I’ll fight in any way I can to make sure that that’s not something Kentucky’s doing.”
What? Why would you not want your kids going on a bus that has zero exhaust? School busses that use diesel straight smell like crap and it’s absolutely hot af in the south. After reading this quote I was like, this world is so fucked.
Conservatism.
It’s just so backwards.
Fear of change, while the world is constantly changing. It’s regressive.
He said he just doesn’t want to, ok?
A vehicle powered by electricity alone? Well it just ain’t right.
Kentucky
That explains everything
There’s a guy who is definitely has a hoard of incandesant light bulbs in his garage.
In the city where I live, almost all public transport buses are electric. Honestly for a bus it’s so much better than diesel, they’re quiet, don’t vibrate and ride much smoother
They can also leverage regen due to constant stopping, don’t get high drag penalty due to low speeds, etc. seems like good application for EV. Makes no sense as you said.
To add to that, does anyone here remember those bus fire drills that you had to do once a year?
I remember having to walk a quarter mile away from the propane buses in case they blew. Much more boomy than the diesel or gasoline buses which would only burn you to death!
I’ll tell you why; because oil lobbyists paid him to be against EVs and he has no actual reason to be against EVs.
He’s a conservative. He wants to conserve his oil lobbyists payout.
Fuck this shit, but also did anyone else do a double take when they read this?
“It’s a barrier to adoption,” said Albert Gore, executive director of the Zero Emission Transportation Association, a trade group.
I had to look him up.
Oh no sir, I must say you’re wrong. I’m Gal Bore, absolutely no relation whatsoever to the very handsome former vice president.
Supporters say it ensures every driver pays their fair share. But the fee is nearly double what an average driver would pay in taxes at the pump, according to consumer advocates.
Sounds like the foundation for legal challenges from EV manufacturers.
Can we just invest in public transit while taxing the fuck out of personal vehicles as well as cease subsiding oil, ffs?
That wouldn’t work in the vast majority of the US, which is very spread out.
It would certainly work for the places where the vast majority of people live, ie. Metros
Great, but punishing everyone who doesn’t live in a metro by taxing personal vehicles out of existence would be assinine.
As far as I read it, they are arguing to reduce fossil fuel vehicles, not vehicles entirely.
The quote was “tax the fuck out of personal vehicles”. It doesn’t say non-electric personal vehicles.
Original commenter here:
We need the vast majority of personal vehicles to be phased out, please.
Obviously, electric vehicles are a stop-gap, but they’re also part of the problem.
Land doesn’t ride in cars, people do.
Public transit isn’t feasible is many rural areas. I know you don’t like it, but that’s reality. Sending a bus 20 miles down a road in the hopes that one of 4 people on it want to ride on the bus just doesn’t make sense.
Sending a bus 20 miles down a road in the hopes that one of 4 people on it want to ride on the bus just doesn’t make sense.
Super true. I am disappointed bus systems have not started an on-demand system. Uber/Lyft showed what an app could do for transportation. Add physical call buttons at stops, or something, for those without mobile phones.
I would ride the bus more if it went where I need to go.
So because it doesn’t currently exist, it can’t ever?
What kind of public transit that exists in reality can cover that situation? The answer is none. We can wish and hope for all kinds of things, but for the moment, reality exists.
Because you have no vision, it can’t happen.
Got it.
It sounds like you also have no vision, since you can’t come up with any solution to that situation.
How about fuck off and spend your own money on shitty transit instead of wasting taxpayer money on it while restricting freedom?
Freedom to get stuck in traffic >>>>
Freedom to pay more in gas than I would for a transit pass.
Freedom to be forced to get a licensed by the government just to move around
So fucking end the licensing. It isn’t rocket science
Freedom to be run over by someone operating a three-ton piece of equipment without proper training and certification
Lmao it’s barely harder than walking
You realize we subside the oil industry with our taxes right?
Edit:
Also
So fucking stop subsidizing it.
I live in one of these states that charges $100 for hybrids annually. Annoying as hell but I save so much on gas that it’s worth it. I get the argument that gas taxes pay for road maintenance, but this whole thing isn’t going to be sustainable in the long run.
The taxes should probably be based on some combination of usage and gross vehicle weight. People driving more with heavy vehicles ought to pay a larger share of road maintenance. A gas tax somewhat handles this since people with larger vehicles who drive more will use more gas.
But the gas taxes don’t even cover all of the money spent on maintaining/upgrading the roads. Roads are very expensive especially when you have these large highway interchange projects. We should really be trying to get people away from driving cars and onto transit, biking, walking etc. as much as possible
But the gas taxes don’t even cover all of the money spent on maintaining/upgrading the roads
This is especially true where I live, because our state police are getting money from the DOT to help police small towns who can’t afford their own.
I imagine they’ll start caring more about road maintenance when they’re so bad nobody can drive fast enough to get a speeding ticket.
But the gas taxes don’t even cover all of the money spent on maintaining/upgrading the roads
They would if we stopped wasting money on entirely unnecessary projects and worthless maintenance.
Except the argument that gas taxes pay for road maintenance is total fucking bogus when you realize how much is spent on entirely unnecessary road maintenance just because of city/state governments in bed with construction companies.
State lawmakers imposed the new fee on EVs this spring to replace gasoline taxes lost to the switch to battery-powered vehicles
This is a good thing, but poorly-implemented. Should instead be tied to mileage driven.
Some function of axle weight and mileage would probably be the best combination
Or recognize the roads and related infrastructure as a public good and use general funds to pay for it instead of leaning into a user pay model.
Humans can ruin anything
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Historically speaking. This was always going to happen. Tribalism, feudalism, capitalism. Agrarians to industrialists to technology. When you look at it this way, you begin to understand that humans are doing exactly what humans do. Given enough time, we would eventually solve all the world’s problems. Unfortunately, the universe is fickle, and time is not on our side because of climate change. We cannot educate ourselves en masse fast enough to save ourselves. Do what you can. Live your best life. Educate yourself if you want. But trust me, finding the answers to things doesn’t help. It can help you find peace though. Love is the answer, it always was.
To me it seems like a few corrupt humans fucking the rest over. Love might be an answer to some things, but it sure isn’t the answer to everything. It’s like king-kong is about to step on your face. Do you hug your family and declare your love, or do you cut off his legs? If they can fight, so should we. There’s nothing more they’d love then all of us burying our heads in the sand. Id bet the world would be a lot worse if it wasn’t for the people that fought before us.
I’m not saying we don’t fight back. Violently, if necessary.
The real issue is the energy grid as more people move to electric cars. California already has rolling blackouts. What happens when millions more EVs start recharging?
Wish I knew how to ride a horse.
Then you’ll just get oat blackouts.
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Let me introduce you to collapse.
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