The poll found 50% of Democrats approve of how Biden has navigated the conflict while 46% disapprove — and the two groups diverge substantially in their views of U.S. support for Israel. Biden’s support on the issue among Democrats is down slightly from August, as an AP-NORC poll conducted then found that 57% of Democrats approved of his handling of the conflict and 40% disapproved.
It’s especially hurting him with the demographic he’s always struggled with:
And being forced to pick between this and trump will depress turnout, and depressed turnout is how Republicans become presidents.
And I know Biden’s supporters will say “he’s still better than trump” and that’s true. But it doesn’t change the fact that this is a fucked up situation where voters do t have a say in this issue because the only two options for president both support this genocide.
no. running shit candidates is how they lose. no one is entitled to someones vote or support.
dnc wants to win? then look at what your base wants. their approach has always been “you take what we give you” and that resulted in donald fucking trump.
If a moderate dem wins, they win.
If a Republican wins, moderates get to be even more moderate and claim they have to, knowing whoever they run next time will probably win just because they’re not a Republican.
The only way moderates lose, is if a progressive manages to win. Because then they lose the main reason lots of people vote Dem: anything is better than a Republican.
That’s why they fight progressives harder than Republicans. Republicans aren’t their enemy, they’re the rationale that lets moderates in 2023 act like Republicans in 1980 and still win elections
We could have had Bernie, and sure, he’d be 83 in 2024 (Biden will be 81), but at least he had the idea to use Israel funding as leverage to get Netanyahu to calm the fuck down.
Instead, we get Biden, who does seem to have a good economic policy, but he was all too eager to jump to a known war-crime-committer’s defense.
I think the most “conservative” thing that has happened in the last couple of elections is the DNC’s pick to lead the party.
Ah America. Where we have the great options of genocidal maniac or other genocidal maniac. You see, we’re better, because we have the freedom to choose!
Ah America, you offer the same choice as France and the UK.
And we can’t vote for anyone else, or the wrong lizard might win!
Biden does not support genocide. Biden has definitely been blind to the fact that Israel is an apartheid state that has been intentionally inflicting collective punishment on the Palestinians since Oct 7th.
The Republicans under Trump will green light a complete genocide of the Palestinians. If you want the Palestinians to have a chance then vote Biden. The Democratic party can be reasoned with. The Republican party is controlled by fascists who will establish death camps in American prisons at home and actively support death camps abroad.
I want to see Hamas destroyed, but it’s become clear to me that Israel’s government is committing war crimes. And yes, so has Hamas, they’re a terrorist organization. Israel is supposed to be a freedom loving democracy, that comes with standards.
Since Israel has proven to be unable to conduct this war properly, preserving the lives of civilians is the only important objective now. We need to make it clear to the Democratic party that we want a ceasefire for the sake of Palestinians and Israelis. Given enough pressure Biden can be persuaded to change his mind. The same cannot be said of Trump or the Republican party.
Bro this ain’t a Mad Max movie, no NGO is going to stop a war without questions of Wagner hitting the news headlines
What? I haven’t seen these movies. Only clips Colbert uses. :|
It could easily take another ten months for the IDF to clear out Hamas from the tunnels under Gaza City. That is with taking into account a disregard for the safety of the hostages, which I’m sure the IDF is doing. If the death count continues at the current rate of ten thousand people a month, another one hundred thousand people will be dead. And if you take it from other people, this war could take years.
We should pressure the US government to demand a ceasefire no matter how unlikely Benjamin Netanyahu or Hamas is to listen. Too many lives are at stake to let this war to continue the way it is currently being waged.
My wife watched the GOP debate last night. She’s not a republican, but she was doing mental gymnastics to justify not voting democrat. “Well if abortion is up to the states…”, “Shooting fentanyl dealers at the border… ok.”
Compounded by the local democratic candidate basically going nuts and trying to cause a media issue where there was none… my wife looks to be voting republican.
When every choice sucks, and the alternative is akin to throwing a vote away, both parties start looking more alike.
I hate to break it to you but she’s a republican already.
Except for one key fact: only one of the options is pushing for things like total abortion bans, LGBTQ criminalization, government funded religious indoctrination, etc. Don’t buy into Horseshoe Theory.
They’re only similar in that they both suck, are politically right, and are funded by corporate interests. But that’s where the similarities end. All garbage stinks, but it doesn’t all stink the same.
Or, as I’ve seen before, both speeding and murder are crimes, but certainly one of them is worse than the other.
Yeah but see total abortion bans and queer criminalization don’t affect the lives of the brocialists that are the consistent source of the anti-recognizing-FPTP-is-a-thing narrative, so really have you considered that this mysterious base of the party that consistently underperforms turnout even for their own fucking candidates should have been pandered to more by everyone who isn’t them doing the revolution for them?
And that’s what baffles me. They often know all this history, are generally well-read, have these great reasons why Candidate A and B both suck, but because they can’t seem to countenance one of them being a single step towards the goal rather than being the goal itself, it’s somehow not worth talking that step at all.
honestly I’m just happy someone appears engaged enough to even do any research at all. and you’re not wrong, we have 2 right wing parties in the US. the rich old white republicans, and the rich old white democrats with an African themed robe on.
I wish you weren’t getting down votes. This situation is pushing more people into that space. Or just suppressing enthusiasm which will turn into fewer votes.
I get that this instance/Lemmy doesn’t like that, and I get the sense this instance is entitled to votes from any non-white, non-male, but… Reality is more complicated and everyone gets agency. That’s part of the foundations of treating people with respect, I thought.
They’re getting downvoted for the last sentence. After all the infighting, the insurrection, trying to remove people’s rights, defending criminals, etc if both parties look anywhere close to the same to you then you are not actually paying attention.
Why would they worry about the lives of us poors when they can be smug about “both sides”?
Down votes persuasive value is often 0. Sometimes even negative.
A thoughtful response goes much further.
Lemmy aspires to be more wholesome version of other social media. It often fails.
Well duh it was founded by tankies, their “more wholesome” is not banning people who think “the libs get the wall too” is a reasonable position even among the far left.
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It’s not even an opinion they’re downvoting. That’s the scary part. They’re downvoting a recollection of an experience.
Okay, it’s been a few hours and I think the thread will be quieter now.
Read or don’t. I know you owe me nothing.
My thinking, and I think the down votes bear this out, is there is a very large gap between experiences and perspectives.
If a person is comfortable and believes either the institutions will prevail, bad dem behavior can’t go unpunished, or fascism may benefit them - or not harm… all of these allow for a more easy path to considering not voting for a Democrat (or at all). It need not even be consciously thought.
Meanwhile I’ve seen some Lemmings lose their mind about things they are entitled to. Like YouTube without ads, FOSS (where their version of the F is literally free), apps for lemmy, and politics. There is a vein of entitlement to free things and to others’ votes.
It’s not everyone, it’s not close to everyone. But it is disproportionate to my life outside of this space.
And instead of discussing the urgency of the situation, the role of empathy in seeing that fascism is bigger than just whether it directly harms you or not… Its a dosing of down votes for not aligning.
For me, this is putting me off sympathy for those struggling - even if I am one. It just looks entitled and not like a cry for help. Even if that’s what it is underneath it all.
Raw, near panicked desperation that the country and the world will all fall to pieces and the elders and privileged won’t even give fuckall. They got theirs, you get yours.
It’s complicated. Or maybe I just think this wrong. But I’ve never seen so many people lose their minds so easily as I see it here. This place breeds anxiety and anger.
I’m evaluating the wisdom of using lemmy, personally.
Here’s how I see it - we’re all fucked, as a species, and yet no seems to feel any urgency. There’s no compromising with reality, but the Democrats do nothing but compromise between the rosy picture the populace generally believes in, and the imaginary world Republicans paint
Many Republicans are quite literally fascists. They’ll tear down the system to extend their time in power. They’ll pick one enemy after another, and impose their way of living on us.
Biden is progressive for a neo-liberal. That means he’ll occasionally do something good, but mostly just keep the status quo.
We need to be making large, sweeping changes. IDGAF about YouTube - I care about what it means. YouTube blocking ads is no different than my grocery bill going up by 30%, or search results sucking so bad knowledge becomes unfindable.
It’s late stage capitalism - we’re being pushed into the age of techno-fuedalism. Instead of physical ownership, we’re being locked into virtual fiefs where companies tax us and control the information we’re exposed to.
That’s the issue here - free access to information is a big fucking deal. If YouTube shut down, I’d be sad… But it’s not nearly as big a deal as YouTube demonstrating disdain for both users and law.
IDK… This is all very interrelated in complex ways. This probably comes off as a rant, but these things are intimately interconnected. Basically, these are all symptoms of the same existential threat to our species.
I can’t explain it all briefly - you have to think systematically, and that’s more of a college course than an essay, let alone a comment. But if nothing else, remember how systems die, from computers to a human body… They sputter, and then collapse all at once. These are sputters. The global just-in-time supply chain snapping will be the collapse… Whether it comes from a natural disaster or because too many workers become desperate enough to fight, this is a civilization level problem
I with you on a lot of this. I can’t expect a free service of… Anyone. It’s part of my zen. I can be delighted that things are available, that I can afford certain things but despite being 50, my experience has been Millennial and I am Not even where I “should be” at 30.
I like Dark Brandon and wish we saw him more often. When he fights for us, I’m more than pleased. The union wins are a celebration and I hope begin to set an expectation back to actual living wages.
And I want those vehicles to be green, with great batteries and range. That’s only one piece of the puzzle, but it’s my main direct carbon contribution and I WFH.
Appreciate the discussion. It’s helpful.
Sure, and I’m with you there. It sounds like your values are in the right place, but marketing affects everyone, and nearly all of our media is owned by billionaires who have repeated the same narrative until we internalize it.
Electric cars and working from home are great, but they’re not a solution - they’re a compromise between reality and the status quo. Just like recycling - it’s a way to sell personal responsibility, but it’s entirely ineffective. They don’t even pretend to recycle anymore, they just throw it into the dump, because it was never a solution to single use packaging, it was marketing.
We have to stop the carbon at a system level, by realigning incentives to make companies feel the hurt for the damage they do, and then deal with the consequences.
But back to the topic at hand…I guess if I had to sum it up, it’s not about being entitled to free things.
It’s about the deal being altered unilaterally in a very hostile way for short term profits. These things were free because that’s how the numbers worked out… This isn’t about profits or revenue, it’s about investors
Look at unity - they killed their own company, and damaged an entire industry. And for what? They couldn’t even answer basic questions about how their wild licensing scheme change would work. A small group who knew it was coming made a lot of money, but far more value was destroyed
YouTube is the same - the numbers have been worked out. This action makes ads worth less because it’ll lower conversion, makes the experience worse for everyone, and shrinks the pie for the creators that make a living on the platform.
At the end of the day, this is logging companies cutting down the whole forest and putting themselves out of business. The investors make more money at first, which they can reinvest in the next thing. Meanwhile, we have a bunch of loggers out of a job, a destroyed forest, and people still need wood. They can move on to destroy another forest with a new company, and make even more money if they own the shipping too.
From the owners perspective, it’s taking the lump sum instead of the annuity.
That’s the issue here - companies are destroying value. It’s extremely profitable for a small number of people, but the whole pie shrinks.
In the case of a marketplace (or platform) you get enshittification, in the case of an industry you have endless acquisitions and downsizing.
The key driving force is the same - it’s late stage capitalism. We have to suppress these lose-lose situations systematically, because chopping down the forest and reinvesting is always the more profitable choice so long as it’s on the table.
This kind of went all over the place because to me this is all about looking at misaligned incentives in our system, but there’s a Enshittification essay that is an approachable starting point to break down the YouTube and Reddit issue we started with
“So anyway, I block YouTube ads” lol
…Do you think that’s a contradiction or something?
That you don’t is quite telling lol
You’re dealing with a lot or Reddit refugees here, so the same attitude transfers over with that radical flair since they went decentralized.
So much dirt has come out about both parties that you can throw a dart at the White House and hit rot more often than not.
Now we have the major talking points that deal with hypothetical law repeals while a war is waging and we’re doing nothing. Our media distracts us from reality so often that we have no clue what’s real anymore.
Reddit is my reference point, but I understand only those who think in specific ways were likely to jump (e.g. Moral clarity around API, spez, moderation/permitted acts).
So it was a subset of reddit (not representative) that joined lemmy, which is also not representative.
What I think I see is what I’ve described elsewhere: white males realizing the tide went out for them, too. Then, not realizing that they have unchecked privilege, acting out and acting like they can tell people how to vote or to vote, how to run their app, run their service, etc.
It is either entitlement, privilege or both. It’s, for me, the most off putting thing since I joined. Not simply this thread, but many others.
Let me add, I’m not Mr Lawnorder. I just think, historically, complaining and demanding doesn’t change things, nor is it persuausive. And the specifics of the acts matter. Strikes work. Boycotts may. Streaming around ads… Will not work except to provide content for free to a user for a while, at the detriment of YT and the content creator. I believe it also hardens an attitude that seeps into other parts of life.
I’m with you. I’m a white privileged male. I wasn’t born in this country, and my parents borrowed $20k for a down payment back in the 80s.
I’m part of a small community full of FOBs like my parents. I can tell you that the parents who chose cheaper places to live with worse school districts have kids struggling. Where you are matters a heck of a lot more than who you are, but the who is where racism pops up.
We have major socioeconomic issues to tackle, and this outrage at ourselves for causing this mess is a distraction those in power use to stay under the radar.
Wealth and power is concentrated. The “middle-class” is really just circulating 10% of our economy’s wealth we’re allowed to play with.
They don’t want to hear it and don’t want that narrative to gain traction.
The response with Horseshoe theory in it is a good one and a better response than mine, or down votes.
What do you think this has to do with the horseshoe theory?
I was referring to this this comment.
The thread was much less crowded then.