At this point I don’t trust anyone. Reviewers obviously paid off to give positive reviews, but then just as annoying is all the pure anti Bethesda hate here. I don’t trust anyone to separate their Bethesda love/hate from the review of the actual game.
I think there was one review that was like “it’s a sci Fi Skyrim in space” and that sounds like it’ll be the most accurate.
That’s all I really wanted from this game. I like the fact the environments are actually different looking instead of Wasteland Fallout or Fantasy Skyrim.
What is Skyrim but a shadow of Oblivion, which is only a shadow to Morrowind? Hard pass if it’s anything like Skyrim. Stupid puzzles, stupid quests, stupid lore. They treat you like a kindergartener, and you guys like it. 🤷
For me this is the first Bethesda game I’ve played (other than a few hours of Skyrim but I didn’t get far), and I’ve been enjoying it quite a bit. It’s not a perfect game, probably not even my game of the year, but I’ve been finding myself wanting to play it over all of the other games currently in my backlog.
I really don’t see what the hate is about, Bethesda promised space Skyrim, and that’s basically what we got.
Yea I felt the same way and spent the $30 bucks on Xbox to play it early. I really think this game is a huge “Your mileage may vary”.
If you have a PC I would look into a gamepass trial or something to try it out before buying it. Or like someone said buying it on steam and then refunding if it’s not your thing.
I didn’t have super high expectations but honestly it’s really solid and it does have its flaws that are sometimes in your face, but I’ve had a lot of highs so far when playing too. If you’ve played a Bethesda game before, you can expect what you’re getting into.
I’ve found if you have a good attitude going into things you’ll generally feel better about them. Going in expecting it to be shit, and all you’ll find is shit.
People are weird when it comes to Bethesda. If you like Bethesda games, you’ll probably like this one. I haven’t gotten to play myself yet but watching friends who have it it looks fun. Does it look 10/10 GOTY? Not really. But it looks full* of fun stuff.
I think in some way all Bethesda games can feel ‘boring’, but kinda in a good way? Like sometimes you’re just wandering a city with no real goal. It isn’t thrilling or adrenaline pumping, but it’s cool and immersive. Some people find that kind of slower pace boring. I think it’s cool. Not everything gotta be full throttle all the time.
I think they’ve been putting out very similar games since like fallout 3. If that’s what you are looking for, it’s fun. People for some reason seem to put unrealistic expectations on things. I assume this game is just improved graphics fallout 3 in space. Which isn’t a bad thing, but if you expect a revolutionary game you are in for disappointment.
Some of my friends played and immediately hated it and brought up comparisons to newer games, but this isn’t the new Unreal engine, this is the same Creation Engine they’ve been using for 11 years, which is based on the 26yr old gamebryo engine.
Personally as someone who loves Bethesda games, and who understands the limitations of the engine, I am thoroughly enjoying myself, will it beat bg3 for goty? Unlikely, but it’s still fun
At some point they gotta ditch the Creation engine and make a new one from scratch. The reason Halo Infinite ended up being a turd was because of its engine.
I played 10hrs on Steam then refunded.
I was expecting a 2023 game with 12 years of development and 6 months delay for polish.
I got Fallout 4 (2015) with scifi-skin.
The thing that pissed me off the most:
It’s not as open and “huge scale” as people seem to think it is. It’s kind of “fake open” if that makes sense. You cannot get into your ship and fly 800m east to your mission. If you do that, a new instance is loaded and your mission is not there. You have to run that 800m.
Steam can refuse a refund after that time, but they are usually incredibly flexible because a) they want to keep customers on Steam and b) many jurisdictions have much firmer and consumer favoured laws around product refunds, Australia for example is a large reason for Steams current refund policy in the first place.
imo refunding after 10 hours is not the right thing to do, and could undermine the whole refund system if it becomes a common thing people do.
The original idea for allowing refunds for digital games (or anything, really) is if you get a broken or defective product. If the game won’t launch, or it’s a buggy unplayable mess, or not what was advertised (and I’m talking blatant false advertising, not some vague speculative comments) you get a refund. If you simply don’t like the game, then you need to own it that you made a bad purchase and move on. It happens.
This is why it’s important to wait for reviews and actual gameplay on YouTube/Twitch first, so you have a much better understanding of what you’re getting. Hell, this why YTers/streamers get free codes on release, so their audience will see the game and want to go buy it.
It’s been said a million times over but I guess it needs saying again: STOP 👏 PRE-ORDERING 👏 VIDEO 👏 GAMES
I agree with your points around not preordering, or waiting for reviews etc. However, I disagree with you that refunding after 10 hours isn’t the right thing to do for a few reasons.
First, the size of the game in question. For a short, 10-20 hour story driven game, a refund beyond 2 hours is ridiculous. For a large, open role playing game, where somebody spent 120 AUD expecting to get 50-100+ hours of gameplay, 10 hours is perfectly reasonable if you’re really not enjoying the product. If I can send back a meal at a restaurant that I’ve had (relatively speaking) two bites of, I should be able to refund a game the same way.
Second, again speaking for Australia as a jurisdiction, is the behaviour of brick and mortar stores. I can purchase a physical copy of a game, play it non-stop for two weeks, and get a refund. They have no way to know I finished it three times, but strong consumer protection laws enable me to game the system like this. I agree that it’s the wrong thing to do, but Steam is aware of the fact that the same consumer protection laws apply to them. While they have enough information to stop people from outright gaming the system, Steam needs to balance that against driving people to other storefronts or back to physical retailers.
Finally, your premise that people can’t reserve the right to get a refund just because they don’t like something. I would agree with this, if game demos were still a wide practise. I can’t get a change of mind refund on a shirt I buy in a physical store most of the time, but I can try the shirt on in the store to see how it looks on me. I can get a change of mind refund on most shirts I buy online, because I have no idea how it’s going to look. Yes, you can wait for reviews and watch gameplay, but it’s always different when you actually play the game. At the end of the day, it still comes down to “I thought this game would be X but it’s actually Y”.
A firm, inflexible refund policy in my mind achieves the opposite of what you are looking for. If people can never get a refund because a game simply isn’t what they thought, what barrier is their to a mildly successful company ridiculously overpromising, securing the bag, and disappearing into obscurity? If everyone buys the game on Steam and can’t get their money back, the company has won in the short term. If 50% of preorders get refunded, the company has just lost all of that money.
2 hours max for a guaranteed refund, anything else (within 2 weeks) needs to be approved by a human to make sure you’re not just beating the game and returning it after.
I am the person who will cheese distance running in NMS by triangulating an objective and summoning my ship to it, and Starfield apparently says “lol nope motherfucker you’re walking”
Bethesda hasn’t really changed their formula, so if you’ve played Skyrim or Fallout 4 you quickly fall into the ‘quest marker->dungeon->vendor->crafting’ loop and the game stops being stimulating
Except you’ve left out a huge bullet point from that loop that has always kept me enjoying their games: quest marker->EXPLORATION->dungeon->vendor->crafting.
The procedural generation of this game immediately told me I wouldn’t enjoy it (even though I hoped they knew what they were doing), because walking around Bethesda worlds has always been one of the best parts of the exoerience, and they went and optimized it out so that it’s mostly a series of menus. And damn if that’s not been their game design strategy for the past decade-plus—‘optimize’ out all the fun parts, make the game as simplified as possible, even if it means cutting out core features fans love.
It really is. At first I was excited about the apparent scale, but the way they’ve hashed it all together all it does is make you jump through a bunch of janky menus and poorly done travel sequences to get to your next carbon-copy action sequence. Combine that with forcing you into a walking simulator when you COULD just use your god damn space ship and it’s just boring and procedural.
I can see some people really getting into it: the grind to gather resources and build bases etc but really it’s nothing new and if you don’t get off on this kind of mindless gameplay then you are going to be disappointed. Just raid, pick up a bunch of random junk, sell it, build shit. God, how many times have we got to play the same game in a different setting?
I will say that they have dramatically improved gunplay compared to past titles. Like REMARKABLY, and I found the graphics to be pretty decent but if you want to play with everything on ultra and no resolution scaling, you’d better have a supercomputer. Indoor fights are difficult to lose even in the very early game, but trying to raid abandoned space bases etc will put you in a situation where the AI has got a bead on you from 4 or 5 different angles at once. Top, mid and bottom levels, incoming fire from enough places that you simply can’t find cover - the way that you win is by not attempting to take these bases until you have sufficiently upgraded your HP and shields. Literally you are corralled down the story path through sheer necessity until you get to the point you can just jetpack to each enemy whilst taking fire and take them out without too much worry.
EDIT: Another bit of playtime.
Imagine if they left you free to use your ship as you see fit? Crew it with NPC’s, upgrade the firepower and put in a few manned turrets. Maybe let you play with friends and form a pirate crew? You know, the way that battlefield has allowed for this sort of open world vehicular co-op for the last what, 13 years? Once you got good at flight maneuvers you’d be just about unstoppable low flight altitude and it would be fun as hell.
Alas, the ship is nothing more than a teleporter with some janky, repetitive space combat out the front window. What a missed opportunity.
are you playing on PC? I’m on xbox and the shooting feels harder and less natural than it did in FO76 or 4. I wonder if they optimized it for PC more than xbox
Yeah playing on PC. It’s certainly not the best combat ever but it is worlds better than any previous Bethesda title save possibly for their involvement with RAGE, but I think that was more of a publishing deal and the gunplay was all ID software.
I can’t comment on using a gamepad, it has always felt like writing left-handed to me.
Really dial in the sensitivity I’d say. It took me like legit cranking it up and then adjusting down by 2% at a time to find a sweet spot. But it’s definitely much more responsive and tighter than any other Fallout-esque game they’ve done. Those always felt mushy.
I’ll say too it’s probably that the games aim assist is very light. Like almost hardly there. For a single player offline game it could use a small increase. Like I’m still able to head shot dudes but it’s noticeable, and combined with muscle memory for similar games, having hardly any ‘magnetism’ is an adjustment. I keep meaning to look if there’s a slider in the settings.
ok thanks for the tip! i’ll give that a try. i think i got too used to the mushy shooting in fallout and compensated by using a lot of left stick (moving) to handle the finer aiming. so it’s just not what i got used to haha
This is sadly the first Bethesda game that hasn’t held my attention. The moment I had to deal with that space combat tutorial I knew I would never want to fight in space again for how boring it felt rotating in circles to keep hitting the same button to fire locked on attacks. Nothing about that felt fun or enjoyable and then trying to fast travel and having to go through the menus was worse.
Then when i got to the first area after the prologue I kept getting my AI robot companion running into as I tried exploring. I lost count of the number of times I tried looking in corners of small rooms only for Vasco run straight up to me and push me into a corner I have to spend 1 minutes trying to jump over.
Finally New Atlantis made me ask for a refund from how horrible the map system was. Trying to explore the large place was tedious and just such a step back from all Bethesda’s previous work with making the maps detailed for you to see where stuff was. Here I was just using the mission waypoints and ignoring everything else.
I had fun at the beginning but there are just many things that caused me sway my opinion into not wanting to play it again. Hopefully I can get the $32 refund for the premium shit since I don’t think I’ll be sticking around for the DLC.
you guys really think it’s boring? :/
At this point I don’t trust anyone. Reviewers obviously paid off to give positive reviews, but then just as annoying is all the pure anti Bethesda hate here. I don’t trust anyone to separate their Bethesda love/hate from the review of the actual game.
I think there was one review that was like “it’s a sci Fi Skyrim in space” and that sounds like it’ll be the most accurate.
Shit bro that’s all you gotta say.
I’m a basic bitch like that I like my Bethesda kiddie pools.
Tbh, that DOES sound pretty great IMO 🤷
That’s all I really wanted from this game. I like the fact the environments are actually different looking instead of Wasteland Fallout or Fantasy Skyrim.
What is Skyrim but a shadow of Oblivion, which is only a shadow to Morrowind? Hard pass if it’s anything like Skyrim. Stupid puzzles, stupid quests, stupid lore. They treat you like a kindergartener, and you guys like it. 🤷
Why don’t you just post your IQ and get it over with 🤷♂️
Lmaoooooo
And that user’s name? Albert Einstein.
Accurate summary. But I still think that Skyrim is fun, in a different way. But yeah I wish they’d go back to the actual rpg of the Elder Scrolls.
For me this is the first Bethesda game I’ve played (other than a few hours of Skyrim but I didn’t get far), and I’ve been enjoying it quite a bit. It’s not a perfect game, probably not even my game of the year, but I’ve been finding myself wanting to play it over all of the other games currently in my backlog.
I really don’t see what the hate is about, Bethesda promised space Skyrim, and that’s basically what we got.
The one time ign was actually on top of it, and people mass disliked the video. That 7 was deserved.
Buy it and return it after 2hrs if it’s not your style. Or you can pirate it and pay them if you feel like it lol.
Yea I felt the same way and spent the $30 bucks on Xbox to play it early. I really think this game is a huge “Your mileage may vary”.
If you have a PC I would look into a gamepass trial or something to try it out before buying it. Or like someone said buying it on steam and then refunding if it’s not your thing.
I didn’t have super high expectations but honestly it’s really solid and it does have its flaws that are sometimes in your face, but I’ve had a lot of highs so far when playing too. If you’ve played a Bethesda game before, you can expect what you’re getting into.
I’ve found if you have a good attitude going into things you’ll generally feel better about them. Going in expecting it to be shit, and all you’ll find is shit.
People are weird when it comes to Bethesda. If you like Bethesda games, you’ll probably like this one. I haven’t gotten to play myself yet but watching friends who have it it looks fun. Does it look 10/10 GOTY? Not really. But it looks full* of fun stuff.
I think in some way all Bethesda games can feel ‘boring’, but kinda in a good way? Like sometimes you’re just wandering a city with no real goal. It isn’t thrilling or adrenaline pumping, but it’s cool and immersive. Some people find that kind of slower pace boring. I think it’s cool. Not everything gotta be full throttle all the time.
*edit
deleted by creator
LOL yeah i missed that one. Not even really a huge fan I just try to temper expectations goin in
I think they’ve been putting out very similar games since like fallout 3. If that’s what you are looking for, it’s fun. People for some reason seem to put unrealistic expectations on things. I assume this game is just improved graphics fallout 3 in space. Which isn’t a bad thing, but if you expect a revolutionary game you are in for disappointment.
Some of my friends played and immediately hated it and brought up comparisons to newer games, but this isn’t the new Unreal engine, this is the same Creation Engine they’ve been using for 11 years, which is based on the 26yr old gamebryo engine.
Personally as someone who loves Bethesda games, and who understands the limitations of the engine, I am thoroughly enjoying myself, will it beat bg3 for goty? Unlikely, but it’s still fun
At some point they gotta ditch the Creation engine and make a new one from scratch. The reason Halo Infinite ended up being a turd was because of its engine.
TES6 is confirmed to be using Creation Engine as well… That’s like 4 or 5 years down the line. Think of that
That’s about what I was expecting, glad to hear it’s mostly true. I’ll be able to play it in a couple days
I played 10hrs on Steam then refunded.
I was expecting a 2023 game with 12 years of development and 6 months delay for polish.
I got Fallout 4 (2015) with scifi-skin.
The thing that pissed me off the most:
It’s not as open and “huge scale” as people seem to think it is. It’s kind of “fake open” if that makes sense. You cannot get into your ship and fly 800m east to your mission. If you do that, a new instance is loaded and your mission is not there. You have to run that 800m.
How do you refund after 10 hours? You get 2 hours max i thought
Steam can refuse a refund after that time, but they are usually incredibly flexible because a) they want to keep customers on Steam and b) many jurisdictions have much firmer and consumer favoured laws around product refunds, Australia for example is a large reason for Steams current refund policy in the first place.
imo refunding after 10 hours is not the right thing to do, and could undermine the whole refund system if it becomes a common thing people do.
The original idea for allowing refunds for digital games (or anything, really) is if you get a broken or defective product. If the game won’t launch, or it’s a buggy unplayable mess, or not what was advertised (and I’m talking blatant false advertising, not some vague speculative comments) you get a refund. If you simply don’t like the game, then you need to own it that you made a bad purchase and move on. It happens.
This is why it’s important to wait for reviews and actual gameplay on YouTube/Twitch first, so you have a much better understanding of what you’re getting. Hell, this why YTers/streamers get free codes on release, so their audience will see the game and want to go buy it.
It’s been said a million times over but I guess it needs saying again: STOP 👏 PRE-ORDERING 👏 VIDEO 👏 GAMES
I agree with your points around not preordering, or waiting for reviews etc. However, I disagree with you that refunding after 10 hours isn’t the right thing to do for a few reasons.
First, the size of the game in question. For a short, 10-20 hour story driven game, a refund beyond 2 hours is ridiculous. For a large, open role playing game, where somebody spent 120 AUD expecting to get 50-100+ hours of gameplay, 10 hours is perfectly reasonable if you’re really not enjoying the product. If I can send back a meal at a restaurant that I’ve had (relatively speaking) two bites of, I should be able to refund a game the same way.
Second, again speaking for Australia as a jurisdiction, is the behaviour of brick and mortar stores. I can purchase a physical copy of a game, play it non-stop for two weeks, and get a refund. They have no way to know I finished it three times, but strong consumer protection laws enable me to game the system like this. I agree that it’s the wrong thing to do, but Steam is aware of the fact that the same consumer protection laws apply to them. While they have enough information to stop people from outright gaming the system, Steam needs to balance that against driving people to other storefronts or back to physical retailers.
Finally, your premise that people can’t reserve the right to get a refund just because they don’t like something. I would agree with this, if game demos were still a wide practise. I can’t get a change of mind refund on a shirt I buy in a physical store most of the time, but I can try the shirt on in the store to see how it looks on me. I can get a change of mind refund on most shirts I buy online, because I have no idea how it’s going to look. Yes, you can wait for reviews and watch gameplay, but it’s always different when you actually play the game. At the end of the day, it still comes down to “I thought this game would be X but it’s actually Y”.
A firm, inflexible refund policy in my mind achieves the opposite of what you are looking for. If people can never get a refund because a game simply isn’t what they thought, what barrier is their to a mildly successful company ridiculously overpromising, securing the bag, and disappearing into obscurity? If everyone buys the game on Steam and can’t get their money back, the company has won in the short term. If 50% of preorders get refunded, the company has just lost all of that money.
2 hours max for a guaranteed refund, anything else (within 2 weeks) needs to be approved by a human to make sure you’re not just beating the game and returning it after.
Steam are usually nicer with games that is not officially released yet.
Oh that’s gonna suuuuuuuck for me
I am the person who will cheese distance running in NMS by triangulating an objective and summoning my ship to it, and Starfield apparently says “lol nope motherfucker you’re walking”
Bethesda hasn’t really changed their formula, so if you’ve played Skyrim or Fallout 4 you quickly fall into the ‘quest marker->dungeon->vendor->crafting’ loop and the game stops being stimulating
Except you’ve left out a huge bullet point from that loop that has always kept me enjoying their games: quest marker->EXPLORATION->dungeon->vendor->crafting.
The procedural generation of this game immediately told me I wouldn’t enjoy it (even though I hoped they knew what they were doing), because walking around Bethesda worlds has always been one of the best parts of the exoerience, and they went and optimized it out so that it’s mostly a series of menus. And damn if that’s not been their game design strategy for the past decade-plus—‘optimize’ out all the fun parts, make the game as simplified as possible, even if it means cutting out core features fans love.
It really is. At first I was excited about the apparent scale, but the way they’ve hashed it all together all it does is make you jump through a bunch of janky menus and poorly done travel sequences to get to your next carbon-copy action sequence. Combine that with forcing you into a walking simulator when you COULD just use your god damn space ship and it’s just boring and procedural.
I can see some people really getting into it: the grind to gather resources and build bases etc but really it’s nothing new and if you don’t get off on this kind of mindless gameplay then you are going to be disappointed. Just raid, pick up a bunch of random junk, sell it, build shit. God, how many times have we got to play the same game in a different setting?
I will say that they have dramatically improved gunplay compared to past titles. Like REMARKABLY, and I found the graphics to be pretty decent but if you want to play with everything on ultra and no resolution scaling, you’d better have a supercomputer. Indoor fights are difficult to lose even in the very early game, but trying to raid abandoned space bases etc will put you in a situation where the AI has got a bead on you from 4 or 5 different angles at once. Top, mid and bottom levels, incoming fire from enough places that you simply can’t find cover - the way that you win is by not attempting to take these bases until you have sufficiently upgraded your HP and shields. Literally you are corralled down the story path through sheer necessity until you get to the point you can just jetpack to each enemy whilst taking fire and take them out without too much worry.
EDIT: Another bit of playtime.
Imagine if they left you free to use your ship as you see fit? Crew it with NPC’s, upgrade the firepower and put in a few manned turrets. Maybe let you play with friends and form a pirate crew? You know, the way that battlefield has allowed for this sort of open world vehicular co-op for the last what, 13 years? Once you got good at flight maneuvers you’d be just about unstoppable low flight altitude and it would be fun as hell.
Alas, the ship is nothing more than a teleporter with some janky, repetitive space combat out the front window. What a missed opportunity.
are you playing on PC? I’m on xbox and the shooting feels harder and less natural than it did in FO76 or 4. I wonder if they optimized it for PC more than xbox
Yeah playing on PC. It’s certainly not the best combat ever but it is worlds better than any previous Bethesda title save possibly for their involvement with RAGE, but I think that was more of a publishing deal and the gunplay was all ID software.
I can’t comment on using a gamepad, it has always felt like writing left-handed to me.
Really dial in the sensitivity I’d say. It took me like legit cranking it up and then adjusting down by 2% at a time to find a sweet spot. But it’s definitely much more responsive and tighter than any other Fallout-esque game they’ve done. Those always felt mushy.
I’ll say too it’s probably that the games aim assist is very light. Like almost hardly there. For a single player offline game it could use a small increase. Like I’m still able to head shot dudes but it’s noticeable, and combined with muscle memory for similar games, having hardly any ‘magnetism’ is an adjustment. I keep meaning to look if there’s a slider in the settings.
ok thanks for the tip! i’ll give that a try. i think i got too used to the mushy shooting in fallout and compensated by using a lot of left stick (moving) to handle the finer aiming. so it’s just not what i got used to haha
I’m on Xbox and enjoying the shooting far more than any fallout. My favorite part of the game so far is the combat I think
huh, maybe it’s just me then. i’ll give it some more time, only about 4 hours in the game so far.
How could they? They haven’t played it.
This is sadly the first Bethesda game that hasn’t held my attention. The moment I had to deal with that space combat tutorial I knew I would never want to fight in space again for how boring it felt rotating in circles to keep hitting the same button to fire locked on attacks. Nothing about that felt fun or enjoyable and then trying to fast travel and having to go through the menus was worse.
Then when i got to the first area after the prologue I kept getting my AI robot companion running into as I tried exploring. I lost count of the number of times I tried looking in corners of small rooms only for Vasco run straight up to me and push me into a corner I have to spend 1 minutes trying to jump over.
Finally New Atlantis made me ask for a refund from how horrible the map system was. Trying to explore the large place was tedious and just such a step back from all Bethesda’s previous work with making the maps detailed for you to see where stuff was. Here I was just using the mission waypoints and ignoring everything else.
I had fun at the beginning but there are just many things that caused me sway my opinion into not wanting to play it again. Hopefully I can get the $32 refund for the premium shit since I don’t think I’ll be sticking around for the DLC.